Excellent point, Sara. I remember when Hillary Clinton chaired an committee on health care and the whole idea was shot down by the AMA, insurance companies, and the Republicans. Just think, we could have had a health care system in place by now if Congress would have taken the idea seriously. It's an idea whose time has come, too bad we had to wait until the Democrats took control of Congress to get moving on it again. Don't know why the Republicans HATE any kind of social program. Imagine if they would have killed social security or medicare! I shudder to think what the country would be like if we didn't have those two benefits.

Sherrmann: I don't know how to do italics either, so I'm just going to use the age old quotes, should I quote you. =0) The different systems were all listed on a website at one time, but it was several months ago, I believe it's "hillaries" plan that has the communist bent I mentioned (though I could be wrong on that....). Obama had one that makes a immediate "check-up" mandatory, though I don't remember what happens if you tell them to pound sand. "WHY ARE YOU NOT BOTHERED BY THAT?" Who says I'm not?!? Ok, I'm not as bothered by companies restricting the folks who choose to use their company, because each and every one of those folks have the choice not to give that company their money. (I also understand that those companies have made agreements with the doctors on their list, that they can only charge their people certain amounts, thus saving the insurance company and the consumer both money. Thus the reasons for the lists.... of course you can go outside your system, but the company will only pay the amount they have worked out with the doctor on their list... you will have to pay the rest.) Consumers seem to have forgotten that what they buy, they get. If there is not an option out there that they find ok, then they have the choice not to buy at all. We had a post either here or in the money saving forum that proves that point to the letter. Someone wanted to be able to pay their bill by phone without charge. At least 5 folks came on saying that they should just accept what the company offered, even if it wasn't what they wanted. Excuse me WHAT?!?!?!? Why the heck should we do that? There are too many companies offering similar services to settle for what one company offers. My dad just had a woman for a satellite company tell him that he had to either pay $70 for a service call, or pay a monthly fee to have them come out and fix their equipment, that there was no other choice. She was actually shocked to find out that HIS choice would involve a rival company and NOT paying this company's bogus fees. (they came out and fixed their stuff without charge) Yes, I know, just like that lady on the phone, many believe that they do not have a choice in the insurance company they choose. It's simply not true. You always have a choice. It may be between something bad and something worse, but it is still a choice. "I DON'T THINK IT IS OK FOR "SOME OF US TO FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS." NO ONE IS MORE ENTITLED TO GOOD HEALTH CARE THAN ANYONE ELSE." No, it's not "OK", but it IS going to happen. No matter how good the system it's still run by people, and people aren't perfect. There are folks in every system in the world falling through those cracks. Are wealthy people "entitled" to more/better care simply because they can pay for it themselves? As much as it seems to go against the grain, and that I hate the word "entitled"....... Yes. In the same way as they are "entitled" to better houses, better cars, and even better tvs. They can pay to fly to where ever the expert in their particular problem is, they can afford to stay as long as they need to in that area, they can afford the fees that the best can charge. They can also chase all over the world for the latest "cure" not available here, to the scientists and the wackos who they think can help. They can pay to have a private nurse come to their home and stay with them for 24 hours a day for months and/or years. And as much as many may hate it, those wealthy folks chasing the fountain of youth, allow the experts to volunteer their time helping those that may not have as much. Allows them to charge less if anything to those who can not afford to pay. And in the case of a home health nurse... pays a living salary for someone else. This does not mean that everyone should not be able to get some basic care. It does not mean that everyone should be able to get good care. And if you need me to pay for your basic health care, then you should be willing to go through the systems currently in place. They may be broken, but they are in place. Somehow it seems to speak to the "throw away" society we have become that no one is interested in fixing what we have, they just want to go out and buy "healthcare 2.0". Kidney cancer (hopefully you are doing better now) is not a minor ailment. I believe that the comment was directed at those who could not be bothered to take a few hours off work to take a kid with a cold to the regular doctor. Anyone who has ever been in an ER has seen the number of folks with routine care concerns that are filling up the seats and bogging down the staff. Each and every one of those folks are going to be charged ER rates, which is probably 2-3 times more than a regular office visit, even including the time off work. Which may have something to do with Americans "paying twice as much" for care than other parts of the world, if in fact we do. If we do it is probably the ONLY thing we pay more for. I believe that I am intelligent enough to make my own decisions, and am old enough to take responsibility for my own actions or inactions. Whatever they may be. I wonder how many folks will be thrown into financial trouble by these plans (even those without a communist bent). With many living paycheck to paycheck and that's without insurance... how much worse off will those that we are supposedly trying to "help" be? How many will tank out and go under with the additional tax burden? Yes, it sounds good as long as you do not scratch the surface. So did ARM's and IO loans not too long ago......

Chelone, I'm sad to hear that your mother has had to cope with some cancer. It is hard to deal with that - even if one's trouble is of one's own making. My family has a history of weak lungs, which I share. I started to smoke at age 16 and after a few months decided that I didn't care for either the taste or, being frugal, the cost - so quit. Now enjoying good health at age 75, I'm very thankful that I had the common snense to do that. And often suggest to others that I hope that they decide to quit, so increase their chances of enjoying such a prolonged and healthy retirement, as well. I try not to come off judgementally about it - and few have given a surly response. Some have thanked me. Hayjud, I hope that you were not upset by my rather joking and somewhat smart-assed suggestion that you consider moving to Canada. Seriously, have you considered taking on a part-time project to produce some income? The nice thing is that you are your own boss, you can do the kind of thing that you are interested in and good at, and can do whatever you choose at your own speed. You don't have the pressure to produce enough to live on - as you had planned to get along on the retirement income that was already in place. I subscribe to a newsletter that discussed some of the issues related to that just this week - can send you URL if you wish (don't know it at present - but can look it up). On the internet might be possible. Some sell on ebay, etc. I feel that it would be preferable if you have knowledge that you can sell, whether by newsletter, ezine, etc. Possibly even personal consultation, whether on the internet or even by phone. Easy to send the messages - better than having to wrap and ship products, I think. I find that it is difficult to find people to reply showing interest in your offer, let alone subscribing, for there is so much material there already. Many don't like what they see and have been turned off regarding the whole thing. I have an idea that might be of interest, which I've checked out around here, but have minimal information that might be helpful to you. Good wishes as you proceed with your retirement. I hope that you enjoy it and have the good helath to be able to do a number of the things that you've looked forward to doing for a number of recent years. joyful

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