@Cooldoc I don't do my own extractions, that would take a huge amount of rose petals. I could buy either rose absolute or rose essential oil, both of them are very expensive and neither of them smells like a realistic fresh rose. They are barely used these days - if you buy a designer rose perfume, there usually is no natural rose in it or just a trace.

Perfumes are assembled from basic chemicals which are usually synthetic (although some can be natural isolates). For rose, the main ones are Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol, Citronellol and Geraniol but there are many more. Each one of these three smells somewhat rosy but not like a full rose. Once combined at the right ratio, it becomes a very recognisable rose but simple, without any complexity. A real rose smell comes from over 100 chemicals. A perfume could use anything between 5 and 50 for the rose note, depending on what else is there.

It's part art, part science and part magic.

Dear all,

I am going to post this here and in the other thread so everything is clear for everyone.

I reached out to WABARA (Keiji roses).

I copy pasted the list of sellers that appears in the "Etsy rose sellers we can trust" thread and asked Wabara if any of these are authorized resellers paying their royalties .

Below is the reply from Wabara.

I could not find an email address for Kawamoto , so I sent them an actual letter. I suspect their reply will be the same.

The controversy should never have existed, since it is easy to find out the truth : These sellers are all illegitimate. If you want to continue in spite of this information, that's on you.

The good news is that there may soon be a legit way to get Wabara roses.

· More Info

Whoo eee! Perhaps it's the end of an era when it comes to selling patented roses for inflated prices on Etsy. It's about time!

I work in tech where parent lawsuits are basically weapons of mass destruction. My Fortune 100 company’s legal team and I work closely as it’s one of my areas of expertise. These cases largely rely on chain of custody and preponderance of evidence. Like this:

You marketed these plants as DA wedding roses. Were you lying, and fraudulently sold these roses as DA roses when they are not, or are they indeed DA wedding roses?
DA florist roses are not for sale to the general public. We have no record of you receiving these roses legally. Show us how you obtained these roses. (they won’t be able to).

Having proven they have no chain of custody, DA will claim they acted willfully maliciously in selling these roses to others. They either obtained them illegally and illegally propagated them, or they propagated them without knowing they were wedding roses in which case they are guilty of fraud (hint never cop to fraud when the US Mail Service is involved!).

Having proven they acted willfully and maliciously in illegally propagating trademarked roses they will then introduce a preponderance of evidence showing their guilt.

• The defendants used trademarked names in violation of trademark laws.
• The defendants used copyrighted photos right from DA’s own web site in violation of copyright laws.
• The defendants were given a cease and desist order and continued unlawful activity (which DA stated they were notified in the complaint)
• The defendants were unable to provide other information regarding their business such as business address and partners in the LLC (common practice for request such information and in the case of JessiesRoses they did not comply).

Also, very interesting in the Jesse Roses case that when the defendants were notified via cease and desist, they replied to David Austin without seeking legal counsel meaning they probably put lots of things in their reply to DA that hung them out to dry. The complaint specifically calls out response as further evidence of their willful ignorance so I am guessing they already told DA these are DA roses.

With this preponderance of evidence they’ll probably ask for summary judgement—what’s the counter argument, we were selling fraudulent roses instead of copyrighted ones?