Recent Activity
Here is a start:
(read the first dozen or so pages so you will understand your goal.) https://www.tagengineering.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/KVSApplDesign_catalog.pdf
From our forum's @opaone
https://bamasotan.us/range-exhaust-hood-faq/
https://bamasotan.us/griddle-faq/
https://bamasotan.us/2020/12/the-kitchen/
stabs at FAQs
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2328297/range-hood-faq-personal-notes-updated-10-31-2007#n=20
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5161173/hood-faq#n=101
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6099827/exhaust-hood-faq-ii#n=113
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6040827/range-hood-noise-project
from our @clinresga
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2324336/vent-hoods-and-noise-the-real-scoop-on-vah
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6417748/hood-depth-question#n=10
Some MUA
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5888450/seeking-muas-advice#28657635
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6078111/cost-to-add-a-make-up-air-system-for-kitchen#n=65
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6184577/need-advice-800-cfm-range-hood-and-make-up-air#28926574
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6128658/vent-hood-duct-size-gauges-material-and-make-up-air#n=19
Specific MUA safety related:
Heating systems with fan-powered exhaust systems can withstand higher negative pressures than natural-draft appliances. Some types of fan-powered systems are much better than others, however. In order of effectiveness, the choices are:
* Sealed-combustion. Also called “direct vent,” these appliances draw all combustion and dilution air from outside. These can typically tolerate negative pressures in the range from 25 to 50 Pa.
* Power-vented. These draw their makeup air from indoors and are also called fan-assisted, forced-draft, or mechanical-draft. These can typically tolerate up to 15 to 20 Pa of negative pressure.
* Induced-draft. These have a small fan added for energy performance, not to overcome house depressurization. These can typically tolerate 5 to 15 Pa of negative pressure.
By comparison, an atmospherically vented furnace can back-draft with as little as 5 Pa of negative pressure, and a gas water heater will have spillage at 2 or 3 Pa. Fireplaces can start having problems at about 3 Pa. Canadian codes limit negative pressures in homes with atmospherically vented equipment to 5 Pa. U.S. codes do not currently address the issue (in a plainly spelled out "prescriptive" number).
1 pascal = 0.00402 inches, water column
1 atmosphere = 407 inches, w.c.
wow I read through the articles and I have to say....I'm not an engineer to understand more than half of what was out there! Thank you very much @kaseki
Great! :) Must be I read it wrong.
With respect to the earlier mention of Wolf suggesting to not install flush in Corian but it's OK for engineered stone, there is one factor we haven't discussed -- coefficient of thermal expansion -- α. If the Corian has a higher α than estone, then a drop in-fit at room temperature might be more of a force fit at colder temperature then estone would be. Something might fracture. Higher α could be accommodated by having a larger gap.
I have no data on these materials' coefficients of thermal expansion. In both materials some gap seems to be needed as it is unlikely the countertop material will have the same α as the cooktop's Ceran.
A sufficiently precise gap all around could be filled by a push-in o-ring that was removable. Vaseline strikes me as a messy way to assure removal with silicone fill. As I recall there are (were) specialized pastes for avoiding silicone bonding having greater viscosity than Vaseline.
@opaone I’ve seen your comments about ventilation, and am wondering about a good overhead vent over a peninsula. Are you saying the island and peninsula are never good places for a cooktop because it won’t be able to take it out well, no matter how good it is? Or just to get a good one? Thanks!
I think I would avoid the phrase "take it out well." One can always configure an exhaust ventilation hood adequate for any cooking configuration, but you might not like its size, aesthetics, or cost. I, for example, have Wolf's largest Pro Island hood over a peninsula. It captures and contains nearly all cooking effluent from the 36-inch induction cooktop and Cooktek induction wok hob mounted side-by-side underneath it, unless I allow a strong transverse draft to flow toward the hood.
As noted two years ago above, and in (now seemingly endless) other threads addressing hood requirements, one merely has to make the hood capture area large enough and the flow rate strong enough to successfully remove the cooking plume contents.
So, the greatest efficiency issue with islands and peninsulas is that the hood has to be larger front-to-back because there is no wall behind the path from burner to hood entry. It may need to be wider side-to-side to deal with drafts, and the typical lack of cabinets on the sides in these placements. Larger/stronger means more costs acquiring and installing the hood, ducting, silencer, and blower, along with counterpart costs for the components of the make-up air (MUA) system.
I believe that when UL approves an appliance, it does so under the condition that the installation and usage directions are followed. Otherwise, nominally safe equipment might well become hazardous to operate. If directions are found by an insurance company to not have been followed, then it is possible that they could claim that damage from a fire was partly the fault of the owner.
Often in a renovation or new construction, if the need for a non-combustible wall is known in advance, then the wall structure requirement can be met at minimal additional cost. It seems that the only way the homeowner can achieve this is to read all installation guides before any construction is performed.
Given the comments of the AHJ in this case, one could build and get approved a "pretty" backguard so long as the essential elements described in IMC 308.4.2 were understood and incorporated. Basically, an air gap scheme is needed with cool air dilution. One could build up to the hood, and install tile on the face. Whatever added gap was needed w.r.t. the range itself could be obscured by using a deeper counter.
If the back guard is considered the only requirement for use with a combustible wall structure, then in principle wall paper would be OK. Something easier to clean grease off of might be recommended. Also, while the back guard is needed to protect the wall from normal usage degradation, one needs to imagine the consequences of an unplanned flambé.
Dan: OP's OP says 3/4-inch clearance with back guard.
Dan - with the backguard I can have 3/4” clearance. Without I need 6”. I’m going to tile the wall regardless. How is this illogical?
I did a backguard....I don't mind how it looks at all. It's supposed to look like a commercial range. Here's my hubby grilling a steak for me. :-)
Where does your hand fall now on the handle, and if the handles were moved, would your hand still fall on the handle where you would want it to fall. If you would have to stoop to avoid the handle end, then moving them might prove in the long run to be an error.
Do you have a kitchen designer involved? Who ordered the kitchen cabinets?
I think whoever ordered the panels that are too short needs to cough up the money for them to be replaced.
And hopefully the next time they order the panels they read and understand the size needed as specified in the manual of whatever brand the wine/bev fridges are.
I would love for you to share photos of the kitchen when you are finished! I am sure it will be lovely! 🥰
ETA- I forgot to say how I did the mockup. I have an App on my ipad called You Doodle. It lets me layer parts of photos or draw on top of photos. I cropped the handles in your photo and layered it on top of the original photo. I then grabbed the color of the cabinet and drew over what I needed to cover. I am sure I am not explaining it very well. 😬
@rebunky: "...in the manual of whatever brand the wine/bev fridges are."
They're Sub-zero. You can see the label through the left-hand window.
I love that this thread is old enough that kaseki mentions going to sears. I also miss Sophie.
I believe the installer had bad experiences with Best and recommended against it. Since we were trying to narrow our choices, we agreed to remove it from contention.
Normally, for adequate ventilation hood systems and closed-windows houses, there will be significant back-draft pressures without sufficient make-up air systems. These will degrade hood performance, and potentially be a safety hazard from CO back-drafted from combustion appliances. How good a given MUA system has to be depends on what combustion appliances might be affected. Our understanding is the following (rewritten from another forum contributor). Suggested pressure limit for not moving too much moisture and dust through walls has not been argued here.
-------
Mechanical-Draft Appliances
Heating systems with fan-powered exhaust systems can withstand higher negative pressures than natural-draft appliances. Some types of fan-powered systems are much better than others, however. In order of effectiveness, the choices are:
* Sealed-combustion. Also called “direct vent,” these appliances draw all combustion and dilution air from outside. These can typically tolerate negative pressures in the range from 25 to 50 Pa.
* Power-vented. These draw their makeup air from indoors and are also called fan-assisted, forced-draft, or mechanical-draft. These can typically tolerate up to 15 to 20 Pa of negative pressure.
* Induced-draft. These have a small fan added for energy performance, not to overcome house depressurization. These can typically tolerate 5 to 15 Pa of negative pressure.
By comparison, an atmospherically vented furnace can back-draft with as little as 5 Pa of negative pressure, and a gas water heater will have spillage at 2 or 3 Pa. Fireplaces can start having problems at about 3 Pa. Canadian codes limit negative pressures in homes with atmospherically vented equipment to 5 Pa. U.S. codes do not currently address the issue (in a plainly spelled out "prescriptive" number).
1 pascal = 0.00402 inches, water column
1 atmosphere = 407 inches, w.c.
---------
The MUA system will have its own pressure losses, such as from a filter, so even without a code requirement, but always with a safety requirement, one has to have no combustion appliances, have separate MUA for combustion appliances, or add a blower to the MUA path if hood flow rate is high enough.
I would have written "because they are inadequate and impractical to clean." There are commercial ceiling systems. They all depend on some grease destruction/disassociation technology to deal with the difficulty in cleaning. Here is a passage from a Halton blurb describing a disassociation scheme:
The Capture Ray™ system is installed in a plenum, which has been studied in detail using computational fluid dynamics (CFD) to ensure optimum results. The Capture Ray™ control panel is designed to operate the UV lamps only under safe conditions and to give a warning in the case of lamp failure, fan failure, other operational failure or expiration of lamp lifetime. Lifetime of one UV lamp is up to 10,000h, if system is maintained as per Halton’s Operation & Maintenance manual.
Discontinued, or current, it doesn't matter. They are inadequate for any real ventilation needs, and almost impossible to maintain properly.
^^Agree. And to elaborate on @Minardi's comment, to clean a ceiling-mounted exhaust means getting out a ladder, climbing up there, pulling down the filter, carrying it down the ladder, cleaning it, climbing back up to the ceiling while carrying it, re-installing, putting ladder away. A fall risk for you or family members. If you want your handyman or housekeeper to do it, make sure your home insurance has adequate liability coverage if they fall.