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frances_in_nj

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frances_in_nj commented on a discussion: Moral and other aspects of buying rare roses in US.
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frances_in_nj

The problem when you start passing judgment on others is that it’s a pretty slippery slope. For example, yes, it’s horrible that breeders don’t get paid royalties (and from what Paul Barden says, I gather that’s the case with most nurseries). Well, do you stream music on Spotify or YouTube as opposed to buying CDs? If so, I can assure you that the musicians who create that content are getting totally ripped off, paid, at absolute best, mere pennies if anything. (It’s to the point where even the mega pop stars can’t make a living from releasing their work, they have to tour). Yes, we’re all responsible for the environment. Do you eat meat? Well, you’re contributing to climate change big time. Do you restrict your driving to reduce pollution, etc. etc. etc. I could go on, but I think I’ve made the point. Once you start pointing fingers at others, based on nothing more than personal suspicion, it is, like I said, a slippery slope.


Paul, composers created organizations such as ASCAP and BMI to try to see to it that music creators were paid for their work; perhaps rose breeders should consider joining together and creating a similar structure to protect their rights. For concert music and TV/movies, the ASCAP system actually works pretty well. But in the new world of streaming, we have literally no protection, and our work is totally devalued to the point that now everybody seems to expect that they should have access to all music for free.

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frances_in_nj

Well, Erasmus, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on the judgmental/self-righteous attitude that has been displayed towards those interested in these roses.(Basically, “if you don’t agree with me, when I point out the error of your ways, you are diabolical??”) I see your point; however, I don’t understand why it’s being so confidently asserted, with absolutely zero proof, that these growers are sending diseased plants or are doing something awful. A lot of people have in fact posted quite enthusiastic reviews of the plants they’ve gotten. Could they be carrying an unseen problem? Well, yes, but so can plants you get from anywhere, including buying at a nursery or garden shop, etc. The most convincing evidence of wrongdoing that has been offered seems to be “looks funny to me”. And the fact is, as Elena points out, you can get problem plants from big nurseries (I’ve gotten virused plants from DA, for example). And what about gardeners exchanging plants, as they do on the propagation forum and under lots of other circumstances? . I’m pretty sure we all buy plants from sources that we haven’t exhaustively vetted. If you’re not comfortable with these sellers, don’t buy from them. And it would be nice to stop saying, with no proof whatsoever, that those of us who contemplate doing so are causing environmental disaster. Anyway, I’ve kind of had enough of this increasingly ridiculous discussion, and have no intention of reading any further.

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DDinSB (Z10b Coastal CA)

I tried that website & translated it - a rose called The Bell Goblin might be Boscobel. Bell Goblin sounds a lot more fun! 🤪👹

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bart bart

The only Japanese roses that are available here in Italy , as far as I know, are the six ones offered by Rose Barni. They are a serious, honest company.

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frances_in_nj commented on a discussion: Etsy roses sellers we can trust.
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frances_in_nj

Why are we now assuming that these growers don’t pay taxes? There’s no reason on earth to believe this, as far as I can see. And I for one don’t really have a problem with low paid workers like house cleaners, baby sitters, etc. asking for cash. Honestly, they are SO not the problem. (And seriously, if you can afford a house cleaner, you’re really not suffering financial hardship - you’ll be fine). The problem is the likes of, say, Jeff Bezos, who manages to avoid paying almost anything while he rakes in billions off the backs of poor people who do all the actual work. And of course, the politicians that endlessly support corporate (and CEO) welfare.


I’m a bit baffled by the hostility some people on this forum are displaying towards those of us who are interested in buying these roses. I mean, I get it, they think we’re dumb for even thinking of buying them, either because of the cost, because they haven’t been tested in all climates, the nurseries have cutesy names, whatever; what I don’t get is why they care. I mean, it’s not like somebody’s forcing them to buy these plants, right? Why are they even reading this thread? Do they really have so little to occupy themselves with that they can’t think of anything better to do with their time than to try to demean and belittle others for how they choose to spend a buck? And as for the moral outrage, nobody has explained exactly why it is so certain that these growers are not paying the hybridizers.


I always thought that the purpose of these forums was for people to encourage and support each other in a shared interest in roses. Maybe I was wrong about that.

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Ryan Coastal LA Zone 10b

Ecosystems are fragile as Sultry pointed out.

It’s also fairness. If some nurseries don’t have to play by the rules—forgo expensive agriculture inspections and quarantines, skip spraying insecticides on roots to states that require it—they are not only making more money than they should, but there’s little incentive to play by the rules and make those same roses available legally.

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bart bart

Sadly, something very similar has happened recently in Italy. An imported chestnut tree (I think it, too, came from Japan, or maybe China?) carried over some kind of mite that spread to the native chestnuts and is killing them. The tiny village where I used to live is surrounded by woods that used to be dominated by chestnuts.Long ago,in the past, when this village was very isolated and VERY poor, the people relied on those trees for their fruits- they make flour out of chestnuts here in Italy. When my son was an infant, I used to go for walks in those chestnut woods, carrying him in his baby "marsupio" (one of those carriers in which you put your baby and can carry him/her on your chest, leaving your arms at liberty). An old lady told me that this was a great idea, because according to her, chestnut woods are good for your lungs (I guess like pine resin in pine groves?) Now when we drive up to the town to get stuff from our old house, those woods are a sad sight indeed-full of dead, brown chestnut trees. Italy really needs to have stricter import laws.

Eco systems are indeed fragile.

Ryan is also so right about the whole fairness issue. If some people cheat, there's a big, big risk of everyone's standards just going to the devil. Notice that I do say "IF".

Philpatx,thank you so much for your post. Sure, it's nice to give people the benefit of the doubt but if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. " It is a worthy question, and I'm frankly troubled by folks not just turning a willful blind eye to the issue, but being rather churlish to those bringing the issue up. It is a very real problem, and rather than get knickers in a wad about someone asking, do a little research, folks." I fully agree.

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frances_in_nj commented on a discussion: Belle Portugaise (gigantea hybrid, 1903)
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frances_in_nj

I've always loved this rose - Jackie, yours is gorgeous! I remember I fell in love with the picture of it in the old (VERY old, like more than 25 years ago) Wayside catalog. Of course, it would never survive in my climate, so I'll just have to enjoy other people's enjoyment of it!

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jacqueline9CA

Oops - I guess I posted 2 of the same pics (my fault, not Houzz's). Here is the third photo I meant to post:




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fig_insanity Z7b E TN

Frilly, billowy, beauteous.

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