Burling has a good shipping deal . She uses flat rate priority boxes. To fit the most plants in the box she chops the plants to the point they're often quite small. They almost always have great roots and do well. I think the top growth is not as important as the roots. If you want more top growth she will send them in bigger boxes .

Heirloom does charge a good bit so that does raise expectations for the top growth.

It makes sense to me that if you pay more you expect a bigger plant. But I think if there's a good root system the top growth is apt to grow fast. Just for myself, I'd rather have big roots and small top than big top and small roots. It DOES happen sometimes that a plant can have surprisingly small roots with big top growth.

I bought bare root roses grafted on multiflora from HOrtico a few years ago and was a bit disappointed with the size. But they were good quality plants and once the roots took hold the plants exploded into growth and I couldn't tell the difference between those bare roots and bigger bare roots I'd received elsewhere. So even size might not be something to worry about too much...if the plant is healthy.

By the way this year the bare roots from Hortico were big...great looking plants.

Genetics+ health is what I want to buy but I like big plants as much as anyone. Can compromise on size due to various factors like whether something is hard to find. I buy small clematis plants from Donahue's because they're cheaper. I do the work growing them to larger size.

Magpie, I don’t really disagree with you. This is about managing expectations, yes? I personally feel that Heirloom is responsible to set the expectation of what we receive. After buying 20 of their one gallon own root roses, I had an expectation of size. When I got Quicksilver, I was disappointed because it looked nothing like the others I bought and felt cheated. Was it perfectly healthy? Yes. Did it grow on well? Yes. But it wasn’t what I expected based on my prior experiences. Did I learn about the variance? Yes. In time. But it goes back to managing expectations. And product uniformity is a thing that is actually studied. The concepts apply to everything we buy (that is why hundreds of apples look the same in the store—because they know we don’t like inconsistency).

I think it is totally possible for Heirloom to ship similar sized plants out for consistency OR teach the consumer what they can expect as far as size goes better than they do.

My Quicksilver rose is huge now, thankfully, and I’m glad I didn’t return it nor take their offer of a refund. I’ve since learned how this works. But I still feel that a more consistent sized product is a reachable goal, but it is my personal feeling alone—not what I think everyone here needs to agree with.

To the OP, I can empathize with their disappointment. Be it a good plant or not, they were simply disappointed. I have had the same experience and wanted to empathize with them.

Customer expectations are so wild I don’t hold any company responsible for customer expectations. I’ve heard so many customers have so many wild expectations in every industry I’ve worked in. In short customers are often wrong.

Customers are responsible for their own expectations especially when making a properly informed decision. Nothing here suggests the shopper was ill informed or persuaded using shady marketing tactics, which I will say I’ve seen some other rose sellers use.

Sheila, Soozie

Elon is not allowed outside during front yard video making. He is always looking for a neighbor’s open front door or garage so he can zoom in, hoping to make new friends ,play fetch or get a treat. More than once I’ve had to knock on someone’s door and ask for my dog back.

Fetch? Anyone?

Oh, those are stupendous. Unless you have a lot of room I'd be wary of it too. I planted a hedge of them about 36 years ago...someone gave me starts from their plants. Well, forsythia spreads from the roots. It's a thicket.

I guess it's another case of "location, location, location". I would have expected any plant that could/would/might have a disease, to have it here in the muggy SE. But I've never seen even a spot of any kind on my K. 'Golden Guinea'. Maybe it actually prefers sweltering humidity? lol.

I think it is blight. My golden guineas were nearly defoliated last year from it(spots on leaves and stems) and was worried they may not make it but came back this year fresh! I prefer these much more than forsythias.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I got rid of mine. It bloomed a lot and the fragrance was nice, but the blooms liked faded to me with that unique coloring, and I didn't lik them atop the light green matte foliage. If they were against a lighter background (like a white wall or picket fence or something) I might've liked it better, but against our dark charcoal grey walls, it just looked depressing so it's gone. Mine did bloom well, did just fine in extreme heat, and had no disease.

My LC is just coming into its first season of blooming for me. I got a quite large plant last fall and planted it next to my trellis. It is growing very vigorously, throwing out lots of canes. The foliage is beautiful, but so far the blooms are a bit small and the color is kind of washed out. Hopefully that improves. The fragrance is wonderful! My daughter insists it smells like salted cucumbers, but I smell citrus.

Sounds like a nice combination, Rob. I have a bunch of annuals I've been planting. Some might be short lived perennials such as azalea flowered snapdragons, Chantilly Mix , and Madame Butterfly cherry bronze. Have planted out a lot of verbena bonariensis...that one germinated very well.

Each condo unit has a small fenced backyard as well as a deck or a small ground level patio. I have an elevated deck (3 steps) and the rest was/is bare lawn....of sorts ;-) And not very much of that. I have about 500 square feet to work with.

Except for some seasonal stuff, everything will live outdoors in containers year round. And out in the lawn area. A couple of smallish pots on the deck but not much room there for anything other than my herbs and summer vacationing houseplants.

The 'befores' are not very interesting and borderline scary (at least to me) but I'll be taking lots of 'afters'!

Good luck with it, I have a feeling it's going to be great. I find it fascinating that you are in the business, and are such a long time gardener and to downsize to a small space. I'm looking forward to seeing photos.

" It'll be on me if it doesn't make it. "

Not necessarily :-) Florida sieboldii has a reputation for being futzy and hard to establish. I have attempted multiple times myself and I can say in all truthfulness I have never had that much difficulty with any other clem, regardless of cultivar or current condition. But once established (at least a couple seasons) it is a tough little vine with amazing looking flowers! I have managed to get mine, grown in a container, through the last 5 years and a move to a new garden this winter. It was originally a transplant from my sister's garden when she moved house, so off to a rough start in my care and not always ideal conditions in the interim.

Good luck with it. Of all the many different clematis I have grown in different gardens over the years, this one is by far my favorite.

I first used Garden Crossings about three seasons ago and I agree - I've been happy with their plants and their customer service. They're very prompt at replying to emails, and I think their plants are decent sizes and come in the mail in good shape.

Good luck with your plants!

:)

Dee

Nice to hear a positive review, I'll have to keep them on the list to consider should I need anything.

Delighted to hear it! Whatever their problems have been I know Raul to be a true rosarian and hard worker and to me he has been a very pleasant and kind person. So I pull for them both and believe they have many strengths to bring to their business.

How do the rootballs of the 5 gallon roses hold up when lifted out of the pots, lily?

they are very thorny so i dodnt remove them yet , but the roots are visible in the bottom of the pot

here is st ethel

ill probably plant them today and ill let you know rifis :)

Beautiful!

bart bart - sorry - I have enough trouble keeping track of roses I plant or move - I don't keep records of other types of plants. I love that clematis too, but have no idea who it is. it is over 10 years old by now. I have tried a lot of different types of clematis, but have decided that I like large single dark purple ones MUCH better than the others.

Jackie

@erasmus_gw thanks for the heads up!!

Thank you erasmus for the update! I'm so sad I won't have a chance to bid on your beautiful roses. But I completely understand the difficulties you are facing. I'm sure there will still be plenty of eager customers awaiting your weekly auctions!

Nice picture. My daughter just got back from Alaska and Seattle and on a running trail she saw three rabbits playing. She took a video. I don't know if I've seen rabbits playing before...they raced around together having a lot of fun it seemed.

So sweet! SJN-that is SO adorable- baby deer AND baby goats!!!!!!!!!

Awwww...that's an adorable picture!

I think it’s safe to say that this is Marianne? Absolutely glowing as her bloom opens! I’ll photograph it again once fully opened.

Jessica, where is the rose vendor feedback page? Can you provide a link, please?

Kitty, I hope you aren't implying that anyone here wishes other people to fail. Speaking for myself, I ordered a product, the product wasn't delivered, I was offered a refund, I requested said refund, I didn't receive the refund, end of story. It is not personal. Why don't you give others on this forum as much 'benefit of the doubt' as you've afforded this rose vendor? That's the last I'm going to say on this thread. I'm done.

Looks like MD is ahead of NC this spring. It must be nice to have such a garden to visit. I think the spring bloom this year is going to be good...we've had good rain all spring and no killing frosts.

Gorgeous photos! I can't wait for the roses to start blooming here!

Breath taking!

I got my Hortico order in Wednesday. Had ordered from them a few years ago and while the plants were a bit small they took off once they got established. I had gotten Chandos Beauty, St. Ethelburga, Jessica, and Imperatrice Farrah. Jessica didn't make it. They ship kind of late for NC.

This year I ordered nine roses and my friend ordered 2 in the same order. 10 out of 11 were a very good size. Nicole , the office person, was nice to deal with.

I got :

Oklahoma

Meg

Summer Dream

Eustacia Vye

The Lady Gardener

Darcy Bussell

Horatio Nelson

Olivia Rose Austin

James L. Austin

The smallest was Oklahoma. All others were close to Palatine size. Multiflora really does well here and since Palatine quit selling Austins on multiflora I was very glad to find them at Hortico. Shipping to NC was a bit high...$59.

Judi, thanks about Royal Bonica, but one is all I've got room for. It's enormous. Diane

Royal Bonica from Hortico 2013

Erasmus - good job on getting some well grown roses!! Maybe I'll try them again next year.

Diane - absolutely incredible!!!! What a winner!

How about if all of you who are so disturbed by the (very few) threads addressing current issues with rose vendors just stop reading those particular threads? There are literally dozens of current separate threads here dealing with blooms and spring and varieties and all of the other normal rosey things we love to discuss that don't mention anything controversial. I don't understand why so many of you seem so personally upset by them and keep suggesting that they be deleted, or people stop posting to them. If you choose to be an ostrich, that's your choice, but maybe don't try to stop others from discussing current events in the rose world.

You're right, Elf rosa. Besides, what's the use of a forum where all the members are allowed to do is ooh and ahh over pretty flowers and verbally pat each other on the back? I'm a great believer in Socrates saying: "the unexamined life is not worth living". I like to think about what I do, and I am grateful to people that point it out to me when I go wrong.

Years ago, I had an awful problem with badgers that had invaded my garden and wreaked havoc everywhere, digging up plants,messing up my mulch, even moving my stepping stones-awful! I posted about it, and bought a Hav-a-Heart trap,thinking to trap them and re-locate them. I am very, very grateful to the forum member who pointed out to me how cruel it is to trap and re-locate wild animals-rearch has shown that this boils down to condemning them to a slow, painful death. It'd be kinder just to shoot them. At first I was quite angry, but I did some research, and found that what this person had written is true. So I gave the trap away to a guy who wanted to use it to trap animals for himself to eat (which is less wrong then trapping them because they mess up your garden to my mind. And, yes, apparently in Italy some people do eat badgers!!!) and spent the next three years re-inforcing my fence at the bottom so the badgers couldn't get in. It was worth it . Thank you, floral,for saving me from doing something the consequences of which I had no idea and would have been contrary to what I wanted to do. I don't want to spend my life with my head buried under the sand.

I couldn't agree with you more, Bart. This forum has been mostly "ooh, aah" over pictures of roses and although that can be enjoyable at times, it is s little tiresome and superficial. I do't think people talking about the reality of situations with buying and growing roses is "negative". It is the purpose of this forum, I believe. What is wrong with honest discussions? Toxic positivity, ugh.

Yes, here's a link to it on helpmefind: https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.79526.1&tab=1

Here's a better picture of it on the Proven Winner's site. Don't know why it's no longer available.

https://www.provenwinners.com/plants/clematis/brother-stefan-clematis-sp

That's interesting. "Brother" As

The official name of this clematis is 'Stefan Franczak' but was sold in the US under the marketing name of Brother Stefan. Stefan Franczak was a Polish Jesuit monk (hence Brother Stefan) who was famous for the introduction of numerous (67) varieties of clematis into popular culture.

Yeah, they're very ugly. They remind me of a Dalek.

Thanks all for the feedback.

(If I ever did use one, I would have it in the garden surrounded by other plants rather than out on a deck or patio for all to see)

Yup, agree that they are ugly indeed!

debra

I'm sure not all Etsy sellers are the same . There are those that play by the rules and those that don't. Just notice what they're selling.

Elf Rose, no I have not looked at all the offerings of all these businesses. For one thing, I am not in a hurry to buy any Japanese roses that not much is known about. There may be many more sellers of roses or other plants on Etsy and I am just saying that I doubt they are all unethical. I know on ebay some are quite ethical and some are not.

Heather, that would be the perfect solution. Maybe Elena would consider doing it.

Put an asterisk on the names of Etsy sellers who are identified as unauthorized sellers of these Japanese roses, so people know these ones are suspect.

Erasmus, wow! Those are amazing. I love roses so I can only imagine how fun it is to cultivate your own varieties. Do you cross-pollinate the plants intentionally, or do you let nature take its course and see what comes of it? How many years from seedling to first bloom?

Thanks for sharing the photos - inspiring!

Erasmus, that's too bad about your Larkspur. Maybe try to grow them again from seed in another area of your garden away from the last planting. Does keeping them thinned out to provide enough air circulation a factor at all? There are so many diseases now some things like Phlox and tomatoes seem to always give directions to provide air circulation and any time I hear blight, that's what I think of.

Wow! Erasmus, I find that amazing that you grew those from seed?!! That really surprises me. I never expected someone to get such great results from growing from seed. It seems like everyone propagates from the plant, and not seed.

Yes, how long from collecting the seed to a blooming plant?

I can't even choose a favorite, they are all so beautiful!

I'm with Karin, thanks for sharing the photos, I really do feel inspired. lol

It certainly holds true in my garden that blooms usually get better as a plant matures. They can have better color, more petals, nicer form, be bigger, and more fragrant.

I have not looked up Pop Art but would guess that blooms are likely going to be bigger on a more mature plant planted in the ground than a bloom on a small potted plant. But I can't say for sure...maybe it's one with smaller blooms...hmf should have more info.

Princess Charlene de Monaco maiden blooms versus first flush of year two

I was disappointed in the form and color. I remember thinking, the ruffles are there, but not much else!

This bloom is from today. It’s gorgeous!

We have had nearly continuous 10-20 mph winds today and everything is pretty beat up looking, but I was excited to see this bloom. Now, this is what I was looking for!

Echo - yes, your roses are growing up and are really beautiful! I've never seen anyone show pictures to contrast first year versus 2nd year roses...great idea! Maybe you should do this next year too!

Mine is first year own roots. Very small.plant but big beautiful blooms.

I had forgotten, but remembered after looking it up, Old Spice is supposed to be heat tolerant. I have grown them and they did last longer.

https://www.superseeds.com/products/old-spice-mix-sweet-pea 

I'm all for giving things a try even if others give it a thumbs down. But I will add my thumbs down...Fair Bianca was very much a wimp for me and I got rid of it. I got Winchester Cathedral instead. Mine's own root and not a very strong plant but stronger than Fair Bianca and pretty I think.

Fair Bianca...yeah , it can be pretty.

Oh, grafted it might be much better. I imagine your climate would be a help. Thank you! Hope you can find one and that it'll do well for you.

Thank you, rosecanadian. It is said to have a strong clove fragrance but when sniffing it that didn't occur to me. It is a sport of the pink Mary Rose. Here is a link describing how it can revert to pink or just have a touch of pink in it. I've seen that in my plant..here is a cute little pink spot:

https://garden.org/plants/view/123/Rose-Rosa-Winchester-Cathedral/

Mary Rose

Judi, I remembered that you like that fragrance, which is why I mentioned it :-D

Erasmus - that is a sweet pink spot amidst all of that white. Love it!

Great story, Elena, roses are really tough plants. I think over the years, Fragrant Cloud might be my best variety, huge flushes of big, intensely fragrant blooms all season, year after year.

As for dog pee, some plants like society garlic are super resistant, others like boxwood are very sensitive. As I walk to the dog park it’s easy to tell which is which!

These two lobelia plants looked the same last week, until my chihuahua decided the plant on the left was his shiny blue new toilet.

And here is a pic of the culprit, Elon aka the Lobelia Lobotomizer. He is a Stuffie Stealer too, you have been warned! Does he feel guilty? Nah, he will demand a belly rub, a game of fetch, a nap and some treats!

What a wonderful thread! So nice to read everyone's stories. Thank you BenT for starting it!

When I was around 9 years old, my dad went on a work trip to Bulgaria and brought me back a tiny vial of pure rose oil. I treasured it and would sniff it before going to bed and dream of the fragrant fields of pink roses he'd told me about.

My mom did grow a couple of roses in the garden, but they weren't fragrant and I was never interested in them. So as a kid I had this notion that fragrant roses were something exotic and unattainable that only existed in Bulgaria.

It was only a few years ago that I started adding roses to my own garden, first a drugstore mini that was gifted to me, then Iceberg just because it was described as a tough plant. Only later did I randomly happen to notice a bunch of Austins in bloom at my local garden center... The range of scents blew me away, from fruity to myrrh to old rose. I went home with Heritage, Teasing Georgia, Wild Edric and Strawberry Hill.

I added Autumn Damask to my garden shortly afterwards, and when it bloomed I found that elusive scent from my childhood again. The circle was complete, but the rose journey had just begun!

My story is quite simple. Before moving to Seattle, I never even planted a single plant, let alone roses. My mother only grew some potted plants on the balcony of the condo, and watering them in the summer was really annoying. About six years ago, out of the blue I became curious about the varieties of the two fragrant roses came with the house, so I started searching online for information and found out that they were New Dawn and Etoile de Hollande, Cl.. I also discovered that roses are one of the very few shrubs that can bloom repeatedly, which made me want to try growing them in the ground. Our front and back yards were originally boring lawns and boxwood hedges, and DH was tired of mowing and watering the grass every week. In 2019, we decided to redo the yards. We removed all the lawn, boxwood, tons of Invasive plants (still fighting with Himalayan blackberries, morning glory, Sweet Autumn Clematis, Bermuda grass, etc. now), installed pavers, retaining wall, a irrigation system, and also built a small deck on the slope. From then on I walked on a road of no return. LOL. I now have about 200 roses (in fact I stopped counting over 150) and many native plants. Since our garden is small and shady, I'm always hunting for dry shade and dwarf versions/alpine plants, so there are also some rare plants here. I found that I love gardening, getting my hands into the soil, enjoying abundant colors in the garden, and even admiring the insects no matter they're bad or good. It’s such a joy to find a new hobby in retirement. It's almost like a second life.

New Dawn

Étoile de Hollande, Cl.

2017 backyard with our chihuahua Beta and a huge black walnut tree in the back.

Backyard 2023