ColMuldrow, I think you have had a lot of suggestions here for things to do IN the beds and you were looking for things to OUTLINE the beds. No one has really addressed the virtue of your idea of outlining the beds, and I think the message in that is that outlining them may or may not be a good design decision. Could you maybe tell us what is driving your desire to outline them? That would assist in a design discussion... this being a landscape design forum. And in design, purpose often drives decision-making. For me there is some confusion, as I may have suggested in my post, between the image of what you have, and what you want to achieve. What you have is kind of hard to argue with, and because of its dominant nature, trying to put a different kind of landscaping underneath it would have a bit of a futile feel to it. And so, a tidily outlined bed would have a slightly surreal feeling to me in this setting. It is obviously your yard and your preferences will prevail, but given that you've chosen a landscape design forum rather than either a plant forum or a local nursery for advice, I'm afraid that does drive the kind of advice you'll get (unless the conversation turns to ivy...). That said, there are not many plants that will stay exactly where you want them to in the conditions you have here; at least, it may depend on the trees, but I don't think so. Plants travel in response to where they find moisture and light and nutrients. Areas under trees are notoriously short of these attributes, and you may find a carefully planted edge wandering from where you laid it. That is why I suggested a physical edge, which if nothing else would create moisture-retaining areas in the soil that would keep plants inclined to stay where you put them, and allow you to correct if they wander. Yardvaark, I thought we were all going to try to get along. The key to doing that is, I think, in your last remark where you characterize opposing advice as an attack. It is not, and regarding it as such will always lead where this thread has led. Opposing advice, even if it criticizes advice previously given, is just the way the cookie crumbles when you ask a room full of people who are not an organization or hierarchy of any kind for advice. You will not get a single answer, the answers may disagree, and as the asker, you simply have to sort that out and the people in the room have to come to terms with being disagreed with. You could have opposed my advice to use ferns on some basis, and I would not have regarded that as at attack on me, but rather as contextualizing the advice I gave the OP. I might have responded, or reiterated, but probably not if I thought your additional advice enhanced the OP's ability to evaluate the option. I don't regard it as an attack on me when someone denigrates my ingrained aversion to foundation planting; I simply see it as a good thing that the OP gets a variety of advice. If all else fails, we should all be addressing the OP, and not each other. Karin L

If anyone is still reading this thread, I'll give you an update. I cannot do any decking as I do not have enough clearance on the patio door. It is only 7". They need 11 -1/2". So that eliminated that possibility. I called a few people - and of course, haven't received callbacks yet. I did call one person that I had heard of through a friend. He has quite a large company, does landscaping, patios, etc. The way he works is that he comes out, looks the property over, then does a design. We paid $300 to have the design done, which I do not think is unreasonable. He, of course, hopes that we will work with him because he is certainly not making any money just doing designs! We talked about concrete and pavers. He suggested pavers for a number of reasons, the main one besides asthetics being that if they move or crack, they can be fixed. I need to read my paperwork, but I believe he said he guarantees them for two years and if during that time anything moves around, he will fix it. He also said that most, if any at all, movement will occur in the first two years. He suggested that the tree I want to get rid of might infringe on anything we do - the roots. With that, DH said to take it out. Yeah!!! Victory!! As I said, he asks for so little that I was not going to argue that point. So, I am awaiting his design which he said would be about 2 -3 weeks. JAN IN WISCONSIN -- if you see this ---- he showed me a book with pavers. He asked if I liked the sqaured off corners or the more rounded ones. I said the rounded ones. I picked out the Brussels pavers. I haven't seen them yet, but from the catalog, that would be my first choice. Then I reread this thread and see that is what you are using!!!!! What color did you choose??? I am excited. I know his plan is going to come in at way more than I am willing to pay. But he is also willing to work in stages or have us do part. He even said things like - the step coming from the sliding door. Right now, there are two steps. I really only need one, so that is a cost savings. I really think he knows what he is talking about, so we'll see what happens. Again, thanks to all for your help. I am so very excited!! As I thought about it, we haven't even used the back and the patio in the last few years. I didn't even like going out there. Now I look forward to being out there, drinking tea (Salada or Long Island depending on the time of day) and enjoying summer - at least part of it. I am sure this will all take awhile to get done.

And for a completely differing opinion....."Does just mulch look weird?", my answer would be not at all :-) There are all manner of mulches and some are better suited for some applications and locations than others and will have differing aesthetic qualities. Not all mulches will look "dead". I would also argue that nature does not necessarily cover all bare surfaces (other than rock) with plants. In many cases, the soil is covered by layer upon layer of discarded plant matter - fallen leaves and tree needles, dead annual vegetation, pieces of limbs and twigs, etc., forming a naturally occurring mulch that restricts or inhibits unwanted growth while nourishing existing plants I would also ague that some gardeners or homeowners do not want a solid, unbroken expanse of plant material. They prefer individual plants to be distinct and many even prefer that the plants never touch each other. And many groundcovers can be overly aggressive spreaders, requiring more time and attention to control than a typical mulch. Would I use mulch in place of a lawn? Generally, no. In that case groundcover plants might make more sense. Applied organic mulches - shredded bark, wood chips, leaves, certain seed or nut hulls, even compost or manures, etc. - are of huge benefit to a garden in that as they decompose over time, they release valuable plant nutrients and stimulate soil biology. They also help to retard weed growth, slow soil moisture evaporation and insulate both plants and soils against temperature swings. Groundcovers are just living mulches. But they are not the only solution nor necessarily the best. It all depends on one's preferences and application situation.

It is the larger pieces that anchor a landscape, and you should decide where you want or need them. Summer is very hot where I live, so I put a large deciduous tree to the southwest of my house. It keeps my house cooler in the summer, but lets warming sun in during winter. If I lived where winds were strong I would plant a wind break to mitigate them. You should think about your climate and how it changes from season to season. Trees should be planted soonest because they take the longest to get to any size. Consider how large (width and height) each tree is expected to grow. Avoid positioning a tree where it could eventually pose a threat to your buildings or a neighbor's, such as fallen limbs or roots invading plumbing. Insurance may cover it, but better not to have to deal with such. Second, but possibly more important to your situation, are shrubs. Fast growing types can hide eyesores and provide privacy as well as protect against wind. Again, consider how large any particular shrub will eventually get. If a shrub will eventually get 6' wide don't plant it closer than 3' to a wall, fence, pathway or your property line. Shrubs can define the edges of your property. They don't have to be tall unless you want to use them as a screen. They can be evergreen (broadleaf or conifer) or deciduous, and grown for flower as well as foliage. Here is a PHOTO of plants that define a property line. Once you have your property outlined, you can put beds around, between, or in front of shrubs. For the first year after planting you will need to water, especially during dry periods. Look at landscaping as a continuing project. Over the years your priorities may change. I'm not going to make recommendations for particular shrubs. You should visit a local nursery as they know your climate and soils, and which plants will do well. Neighbors can also tell you which plants worked for them and which ones failed. I think you should buy plants hardy to at least one zone colder than the one you are in due to the extremes in weather we have been having. Native trees and shrubs should not be overlooked.